ID: ecf31 No.10255
>You aren't your crappy dad
You know even if you are kind of a violent asshole that choked the hell out of a guy. But sure no temper or abusive tendencies here.
ID: 737b4 No.10256
Abby and Paulo's relationship always felt dumb to me. Mostly because Paulo thought going out of his way to mess with the kid with clear anger issues was a good idea but can't seem to figure out why the same kid hates his guts. Honestly, we'd probably be singing a different tune if Abby had choked him after Paulo said something stupid and he just had enough.
That said Abby does need to get a good handle on his temper. He's not his father but he could easily become like him even if he doesnt realize it himself. Something like that happening is pretty common. Jasmine looks like she'll be the one to help him. I really wouldn't be surprised if she stats taking him to church with her and that helps somehow.
On a possibly side note, Daisy needs a call out too. All while she was dating Abby, whenever Paulo would do what he could to piss him off she would tell Abby to calm down but hardly if at all tell Paulo to back the fuck off. When they broke up she basically tossed all the blame on Abby but didnt accept her own fault in the matter. From what I remember she has a habit of trying to be friends with everyone but tossing some of them under the bus with ease at the same time.
ID: a13b5 No.10283
Best male character is objectively Matt.
ID: 58391 No.10285
Matt is pretty good, but kind of just a token that is barely used. Augustus has more "meat" to his character but I blame that on screen-time. Even if he was a stereotypical Saturday morning cartoon villain when introduced.
Its a shame the story rarely veers off into more mature themes, we can't have gang drug-trafficking but we can show a detailed suicide attempt? At least that would make things more interesting. I mean even a teen-pregnancy would be more tame and add alot of drama too.
ID: a13b5 No.10286
Well, the author has mental health issues, you tend to write what you know.
Borderline personality disorder, if I recall correctly. I'd say petulant sub-type if I were to give her an armchair diagnosis, and she's probably got some co-morbid stuff going on.
It's a super-fun mashup of major depressive disorder, generalized anxiety disorder, obsessive compulsive disorder, and bipolar disorder. All with the added benefit of not really being treatable with medication.
Lucy seems to be fairly close to a stand-in for her. People with borderline personality disorder tend to fixate on a "favorite person", and suicidal ideation would certainly not be out of line for a person with BPD who is summarily and continuously rejected by their "favorite person".
I may be reading too much into the characters, but she at the very least obviously written to show she (Lucy) was going through a fairly serious depressive episode.
I also think her suicide arc was fairly realistic in the way it treated her mannerisms, especially leading up to the execution of her plan (suicidal depressed people often have an elevation in mood prior to attempting suicide, feelings of peace or calmness which are typically associated with the idea of an end to their suffering. It's a fairly common occurrence with families who do not have any training in suicide prevention to interpret the upswing in mood as the person finally breaking out of their depression.
Abby is written as having PTSD and/or some kind of personality disorder of his own, which is common of children who are products of abusive parenting. His father did beat his mother to death.
I don't know if the author's personality disorder is contributed to by childhood trauma, I certainly hope not.
Anyway, I'm rambling a bit but I guess what I'm getting at is I disagree with you about the quality of the characters generally. They're not all likeable, but they're mostly written pretty well and with fairly distinct personalities. I feel like you're implying that the characters should have the introspection of a well-rounded adult.
The closest to that is Jasmine, and she's the most outlandish character to me.
ID: 8983e No.10288
I can distinctly recall Taeshi saying that she'd been molested by someone (an uncle, I think), so…
ID: 58391 No.10289
Just because it's a self-insert with a mental illness does not mean it's a well-written character. Nor is it an ideal one for impressionable tweens/teens to follow. Also you are wrong, BPD can be treated with medicine and therapy.
While the author may have a reason for mental illness, Lucy does not. BPD can be genetic but is often influenced by early childhood abuse,neglect or trauma. This is the case for the majority of "personality disorders" which are infact not mental illnesses like Depression and generally are directly to do with environment and experience. Lucy has an ideal picture-perfect family that is very involved.Her home life is so idealistic it's kind of hilarious ; her parents have no control of her and seemingly do not care how out of control their daughter is.
Please send her back to the school she tried to kill herself at around the boy she is unhealthily obsessed with. Also, no mention of therapy or even the fact Lucy shouldn't be able to walk after that attempt at all - you don't just jump off a 3 story building and not have any lasting damage (Snow is NOT that cushioning.) she doesn't even walk with a limp.
A character is not a real person, you cannot just have things be without proper explanation.Cause and effect has to be in play.
Also Abbey having mental health issues is way more believable then Lucy.
ID: a13b5 No.10290
What I am saying is I disagree with your opinion that the characters are not well written.
As to borderline personality disorder, I said it's not /really/ treatable with medication. Which is true. It is extremely treatment resistant most cases, with medications *sometimes* helping to manage certain symptoms, and cognative and/or dialectical behavioral therapy *sometimes* bringing a person slightly closer to being able to self-regulate.
Most of the medications used for BPD patients are just spaghetti thrown at the wall in the hopes that something will stick. There's still practically no knowledge about the causes or mechanics of borderline personality disorder.
As to Lucy's mental illness being "believable", what does that even mean? Do you think people with mental illnesses just get sneezed on one day and whoops now I'm depressed? Do you think "sadness" and "depression" are the same thing, or that there is some prerequisite magnitute of severity before an event can trigger a depressive episode? Are you expecting a 3 year character arc where she goes through the process of seeing 15 different therapists and psychiatrists and being misdiagnosed a dozen times?
Yeah, that'd make for a thrilling story arc. "Lucy gets thrown into group therapy because the county insurance plan through the state won't cover individual therapy, Page 1 of 264", "Lucy gets prescribed 5 different SSRI's that all end up making her more suicidal. Page 1 of 114".
Girl has best friend, girl loves best friend, best friend rejects her, best friend then goes further and fully repudiates her while consistently and frequently calling her an awful person, girl internalizes former-best friends comments, girl turns to self-loathing, falls into depression.
You may not LIKE the way the story goes, you may not LIKE the way the characters develop, and you may find the causes particularly compelling, but you're wrong if you're just going to assert there's effect with no causation.
ID: 58391 No.10292
A mental illness =/= personality disorder. They are not the same thing, medically speaking - but can be co-morbid. Here's some medical documentation about that very subject https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11823318
The problem with Lucy's "depression" is it's ONLY because Mike rejected her, there was no real tell-tale signs of it otherwise. Yeah she was a tsundere; whatever, but that's simply not.how.depression.works.
Lucy doesn't have weight because her character is flimsy, there isn't much established for her beyond "tsundere with great singing voice (which makes EVERYONE cry) that everyone wants to bang, also good with animals i guess and unpredictably violent."
Of course Taeshi wouldn't write details of the medical advice, but my god throw in "Im seeing a therapist" or some shit. We don't even see her get any PHYSICAL therapy, that snow was less then 6 inches or so given how "deep" their feet sink.
Which Im pretty sure most would not advise someone as unstable as her to return to the very place that gave her so many depressive episodes to get triggered once more.
Which all comes back to the start,why would *anyone* care for Lucy if all she is vitriolic,self-serving and an asshole to pretty much everyone she meets? Whatever has she done to help others? Why is she deserving of love or stable relationships? Does she even know "how" to be a friend to others when it doesn't serve her own interests (or beyond trashy gossip?)? Even if the mental-illness/personality disorder (whatever you subscribe to) was written realistically, again - why should anyone care?
Just because its a main character in a story doesn't mean we have to care about them,especially when the author has made no attempt to make them likable.
Yeah Im sorry, emo teenager with a crush that doesn't want her doesn't cut it for me in terms of characterization. Maybe for those tweens/teens she is trying so desperately to win admiration from perhaps.
ID: a13b5 No.10293
That abstract you linked is an opinion from a single author, it's also from 2002 and would be outdated as to terminology post DSM-5.
Mental illness and mental disorder are used interchangeably in common parlance, the most common terms referring to mental illness/disorders that require routine maintenance being "severe mental illness" and "severe and persistant mental illness".
Furthermore, personality disorders are federally designated as mental illnesses (serious or severe and persistant) depending upon the level of affect they have on a person's life. Everything that meets the diagnostic criteria of the DSM 5 is included in that definition, including affective disorders, psychotic disorders, personality disorder, and so on.life". I go by the DSM 5 definition, in large part because it is what I am required to abide.
The current definition in the DSM 5 is: "A mental disorder is a syndrome characterized by clinically significant disturbance in an individual's cognition, emotion regulation, or behavior that reflects a dysfunction in the psychological, biological, or developmental processes underlying mental functioning. Mental disorders are usually associated with significant distress in social, occupational, or other important activities. An expectable or culturally approved response to a common stressor or loss, such as the death of a loved one, is not a mental disorder. Socially deviant behavior (e.g., political, religious, or sexual) and conflicts that are primarily between the individual and society are not mental disorders unless the deviance or conflict results from a dysfunction in the individual, as described above."
The current definition centers around the resulting behavior rather than the causes (a common theme). This is in line with the federal statory treatment of the definition as well.
What is realistically different under this definition as opposed to any other?
Nothing, it's all pedantry. Diagnostic criteria is applied, people are crammed into the current diagnostic definitions as best they can be, therapy and medication management is applied.
I agree with you on Lucy's likability, generally, but I enjoy her presence as a catalyst for the other characters. I suppose I'd have a difficult time summarizing why I find the comic enjoyable, as I've been reading it for a while and I'm not sure I could put a finger on what actually hooked me. I also don't typically get into these sort of discussions. Maybe I just find it interesting reading into the various personality traits of the characters. I don't get the feeling that the characters are flimsy though, each character feels fleshed out, whether through backstory, interactions between the characters, are some combination. There's a lot of material at this point and a lot of it is trash, but it's gotten pretty interesting to follow at this point.
I can understand it not being everybody's cup of tea, what I can't understand is criticizing this comic for it's writing but then hyping for abject garbage like that Master Godai comic.
ID: 58391 No.10294
Did you get that psychology degree from wikipedia, bro?
ID: a13b5 No.10295
My degree is actually in public health administration. Nice try attempting to deflect the fact that you're wrong about your pointless and completely immaterial comment.
Feel free to keep looking for inane things to needle me with, if it helps you get over the humiliation of the previous thread, but please try to have some sort of idea of what you're talking about.
ID: 58391 No.10296
Explains alot actually, thanks! :D
Boy oh boy,this is completely thread relevant and not some pompous attempt to stir up drama - again.
Sorry my "opinion" on this precious webcomic doesn't align with yours "Mr.Adminstrator", you sure like to tout that ""job"" of yours a lot - sure it isn't some kind of compensation for something else? Are we suppose to be impressed or some shit? Like who give a flying fuck.
Yeah, real "jealous" of your mundane desk job - though gotta admit its amusing how much of a beef you got with me,pretty funny actually.
ID: a1b21 No.10300
Holy shit, please calm down.
The guy was just giving you a rundown of where he thinks you were wrong. He wasnt even rude about it. The post was informative and interesting.
ID: 068ab No.10302
Whoa dude, no need to have a coronary, breathe a bit.
ID: 33d98 No.10303
>Paulo being annoying out of character idiot again
>Just because it's a self-insert with a mental illness does not mean it's a well-written character.
Is it really that difficult to come to the conclusion Paulo's cool/tough-guy attitude was a feint all this time? This whole thing was explained in volume 1 and every interaction he's had since has been slowly and progressively wearing it down, especially when he started interacting with more characters older than him like Toby who had been victims of that type of masculinity. You can't blame this on poor writing or the author's mental illness. Maybe you need to read the comic again.
If he's got any mental deficiency - it's through being an impressionable idiot and being something he's clearly not at heart with in order to impress others. What you're looking at right now is actually "him". Paulo's acting this way right now because he's encountered fewer people who's resisted and reacted against his immaturity, Abbey one of the fewer people who's physically attacked him over it. He's never been on the receiving side.
ID: a13b5 No.10306
Weak attempt to deflect your provocations.
ID: 27ee4 No.10307
Oops I mean Matt.