ID: 74d81 No.7815
Well, at this point, it feels like people are complaining just so they have something to complain about. And it's getting old.
ID: 3acce No.7816
Beacuse Mora is his character, the prime stuff and their history and their enemies was him. He is responsible for her story.
I'm not saying any of it is good or bad. I'm kind of neutral about the whole thing, I read it for a lot of the same reason I keep up with other average web-comics (Wilde Life springs to mind). I'm along for the ride and I might as well see where we're going.
What I want to know is why you put him on a pedestal like this and claim that everything you don't like isn't his fault.
ID: a17d4 No.7818
Because the other 98% of what gets complained about isn't remotely his fault and you're conveniently ignoring that fact.
ID: c718e No.7819
As someone who knows Chalo more on then a passing basis. He has told me himself that the reason he hired writers is his difficulty with dialogue, he has plenty of ideas and loves world-building but doesn't know how to make it into a story.
Writers like SK and Curran came in to fill the gaps,with SK specifically telling Chalo "He'd help him write a story wtih his characters." I think the compromise was, SK/Curran and ID got to have some of their own creations/characters worked into the story.
Scripts are wrote up and sent to Chalo and he does the rest. I'm sure there is some kind of meeting between them to discuss what will happen next and over-arcing plots. My understanding from talking to the people who work on these comics is primarily this is Chalo's story/vision/ideas with the writers there to help him along. Chalo has absolute power since he is the only artist and does the lettering on the comic too.He prefers it this way.
In the end, countless other comics with probably hundreds with 'furries' in them. Many that have heavier faults then LL and it's comics do.>>7814
How do YOU know it isn't? As a comic writer myself, as you work on a project you get various ideas. The main-story can shift, entire arcs and chapters are rewritten. It just comes with long-termed projects and it's not necessarily a bad thing. It's hard starting up a comic - so once you get a foothold of what you wanna do - you get more ideas.. it evolves.. it's meant to.
Is Mora being half-narharkan or whatever a good plotpoint? Maybe, we haven't really learned enough about crests and this Evil Emperor thing to say yes or no.
ID: e798f No.7820
anything SK or Curran writes has to shoot by Chalo for approval. if there was anything he didn't like then he would veto it. hell, some of the crazier things in the comic could have easily been chalo's ideas alone. Considering this, chalo has more fault it in than people think.>>7811
to answer this question, it's because SK and sometimes ID did the forum speaking for the longest. Curran as well. It was known that they were the writers and chalo himself rarely posted. So when something looks wrong to someone, people jump to SK messing things up, despite the fact that chalo has the final say for the comic. he always has
ID: a17d4 No.7821
>>7819>How do YOU know it isn't?
Because both SK and Id mentioned on multiple past occasions that they really don't plan all that far ahead. It was the forumites who somehow came to the conclusion that Mora's dad being a Raizen knockoff was planned years in advance when some dumbass went "Hey, this kid on page 4 called Mora a monster! ZOMG this means it was all foreshadowed from the beginning and everyone hates and fears Mora cause they know what she is!", despite that not even lining up with how she's generally treated.
ID: c718e No.7822
Sounds more like you just don't like that plotpoint and thus are delegating it to "terrible writing!" Even if there was ample foreshadowing.
Just because you don't like something in a story doesn't mean it was made up on the spot just to annoy you or other readers.
ID: a17d4 No.7823
And just because you like it doesn't mean it was well-written or had "ample foreshadowing".
ID: 0ceca No.7824
Just so we're clear, wether you think they were planned or not (which is arguable, and beside the point) do you admit thay Chalo has a hand in the parts of the story that you don't like?
ID: e798f No.7826
thinking about it…this comic gets some people way more wound up than it should
ID: 064c4 No.7828
This isn't really an argument in your favor though. It's basically saying "nuh uh". Like, do you have any evidence that her background wasn't planned out. Ypu are making that assertion and citing a lack of proof as your evidence.
Having Mora be half anti-prime makes sense and explains a few things going back regardless of how long ago that the backstory was decoded. The monster comment, ambar and minos keeping an eye on her, her supernatural strength her long ears compared to every other cow, all explained. And Chalo approved, being his character originally and currently. In other words, if you don't like it guess who you should be directing your criticism at.
ID: a17d4 No.7830
First off, you're talking to someone else entirely now. Second…
>The monster comment
Yes, clearly the people see her as a monster. This is why she's literally NEVER BEEN TREATED LIKE ONE. Sometimes a snot-nosed brat is just a snot-nosed brat.
>ambar and minos keeping an eye on her
Yeah, let's face it, do you REALLY believe Minos meeting and getting with her was anything more than typical animu storytelling until they decided to make ol' Super Saiyan Demon Daddy a thing? And now it's just all the stupider, having Minos be there just to make sure her power level doesn't go over 9000 and make her go all Sunset Shimmer or some shit, seriously?
>her supernatural strength
No, that's really just a special snowflake-ification of a trait already given to every large species of Prime.
>her long ears compared to every other cow
Because she's half-rabbit or whatever animal Not-Raizen is, it's not a demon trait. Hell, it was stated years ago that she's a hybrid, but that was it. Back when she also had an older sister who left with their dad.
And dude, again, both SK and Id have stated multiple times on the forums that they really don't plan ahead nearly as far as you'd like to think. And yet so many fans still honestly believe everything is part of an epic decade-long master plan.
ID: e798f No.7831
you keep mentioning SK and ID you never mentioned chalo. it's like you keep dodging the question of "do you believe that a good portion of LL's wackiest stuff could have been chalo's idea"
its not impossible that the things you broke down and listed could have come from the guy himself. but you keep going "SK and ID said" like it's going out of fashion.
ID: e798f No.7832
also where are these forum posts you keep mentioning? This shit has come up so much in LL conversations but nobody ever supplies proof
ID: a17d4 No.7833
>>7831>you keep mentioning SK and ID you never mentioned chalo.
Because they were the ones who said it, not him…?
ID: febc7 No.7834
Ok, just sticking to what I know and remember. Leaving my personal feelings out.
Las Lindas was never written with much of a master plan when I was a part of it. The most we ever did was plan out an arc, and Chalo had some long term ideas he wanted like Mora & Alejandra reconciling and the whole thing about Mora's dad.
Did Minos show up to keep an eye on Mora? That's not an idea that was ever considered in the back room. Minos showed up because Mora & Minos have been a thing since before Las Lindas.
The Crests and their stories are all Chalo's. Knighthood is Curran's side-story using Chalo's world and characters as a framework. Joy, Drake, Hope, Kayin, and Aya are all his creations.
I don't know if Mora's Narakhan heritage is going to get brought up again. The feedback we got from that comic caused a truckload of internal drama.
Also, I don't think there's many threads that we've deleted on the forums. Or at least on the admin side I'm able to access everything since 2007. If you want to make an argument of something we've said on the forums you have access to them and can provide snippets to back up claims made.
Or you can ask me what I've said. I can't guarantee I'll answer but when I do I'll do it to the best of my knowledge.
ID: 064c4 No.7835
So…you have a concise clear explanation for these things anf you chalk up to "no reason/bad writing/tropes"? You aee clearly miserable by your own choice, so I can't help you.>>7831
It's clear that he idolizes Chalo. So anything he doesn't like about the comic can't be his fault. It must be these external factors. Rather than be an adult and admit that maybe people he likes sometimes do things he doesn't like, he prefers to have this black and white worldview so everything comforms to his first impression. Kind of facinating of you think about it.
ID: a17d4 No.7836
Wow, yeah, you got me all figured out there, chief. Regular psychologist, you are.>>7834
Good to have some form of evidence from one of the writers himself. But as for the forum posts, yeah, a lot of old ones actually have gone missing over the years, and it's not all that easy to find posts nowadays anyway for some reason, especially for unregistered guests. Though if I ever did manage to locate them, I'd gladly provide the links to them.
ID: c718e No.7838
He's the site owner, y'know. I wouldn't poke the bull.
Honestly, who really cares what the old forum posts said anyways? It just seems like some contrived way of forcing the blame on the writers for all the faults of the comics.
In the end, this is their art and they can do whatever they please with it. You have absolutely zero control or right to say what should or shouldn't be in the comic. Even if it becomes the most nonsensical thing ever, it doesn't matter.They have no obligation to you or anyone else.
Instead of complaining MAKE something, try doing a webcomic and see just how easy it is. See how hard it can be to deal with an audience, pour years if not a decade plus into building up a fanbase from scratch.
I'm so tired of seeing these inane posts over and over and over.
ID: a17d4 No.7839
Sorry, but declaring "Make it yourself then!" to complainers isn't going to make the comic exempt from criticism, and you can't actually take away anyone's right to dislike anything about this fine mess.
ID: 5b21f No.7840
I doubt the point being made was that complainers should lose their right to whine. The point here is that whining produces nothing of value and rarely is constructive.
This comic apparently garners a following of people who love to find flaws to point out or reasons to complain about it. It goes far enough that they do this instead of, you know, reading it to enjoy it. In turn, they habitually go to imageboards like this to write remarks ladened with hyperbole about how bad this comic is and how it should've been put down a long time ago.
The gist of what I'm saying is this: people have the right to complain, but there's no merit in it and you're just making yourself look like a whiner who has nothing better to do.
ID: 967d3 No.7841
The whole love/hate thing isn't completely unbalanced. While people who complain go to image boards, make their own blogs or just spread their own opinions those who like the comic go to official sites to show support or contribute to the community.
Couple of things that do stand out when disliking is when critiques become little more than thinly veiled insults that just seem to be repeated every few months.
I mean sure people are allowed to say what they want but those opinions don't seem to helpful or interesting then they just get glanced over and forgotten.
ID: 69258 No.7842
I'll concede that the Katbox site and it's forums have a healthy following of actual fans of the comic. However, what I was hoping to convey was that there's this handful of people who follow the comic purely to have something to be upset about.
That said, I agree that complaining about the comic becomes stale and annoying when it's only thinly-veiled insults and venting rather than legitimate constructive criticism.
ID: 9afed No.7844
It's become a bit like this, hasn't it? :(
I was going to mention that given the complaints about the 'story' of the comic, that people only show for the TnA fanservice, but considering just how much attention has been shown toward it in this thread, I can't say as I'm entirely sure about that either.
Case in point with how nobody seemed to notice>>7827
ID: 27f40 No.7845
As a complete outsider to this Las Lindas megafranchise, I'd like to stick my head from out the trench and ask one single question:
What does it take for Knighthood to actually be a much better read, short of taking notes from Obsidian's writing team? From what little I've seen, it's just a run-of-the-mill Animerican-esque story with a lot of cues and beats used in much the same way as a lot of other webcomics I've seen in passing, like Hunters of Salamanstra. It's clear that there's a lot of disdain shown towards Knighthood, but it's just as clear that it's not going away, either. At this point, I'd just ask what it is the dissenters want out of Knighthood, barring just simply saying it needs to be axed.
ID: a17d4 No.7848
>>7827>Minos' little response in the corner there
That really just makes me feel sadder about what his overall role has been reduced to.
ID: 967d3 No.7849
From what little I know of anime I could say it is hated because of the way it is written but then you don't need to associate every story of discovery n advancement with some animated genre.
Looking at it Knighthood is more a story involving characters we know less of than the regular fav characters from Las Lindas so when it has survived longer than things like Lost Kittens people tend to wonder why. I am also under the impression is written by a separate writer from the main comic so there is probably more of a story line worked out. Not too sure who or how it is funded either, but seeing how it lacks fanservice and focuses more on Crest related story lines this can also put people off.
ID: a17d4 No.7854
I don't think anyone's surprised. He's kinda always wanted us to love Miles too.
ID: 36091 No.7855
It's quite hard to like a character who is an opportunistic but lazy, skirt-chasing sociopath. I really don't see why should we take Chalo's word for it, when he and other writers have been singing the same song over the years, repeating "Miles will change for the better this time around, you'll see just give him a chance!", but he still keeps behaving the same way.
ID: 4728a No.7856
Usually Miles follows up any of these "change for the better" moments with a long self-satisfied rant that reaffirms that he loves himself just as he is and it's the rest of the world that needs to change.
Everybody remembers the plane, right? And the mall before that?
ID: a2fd1 No.7858
>>7847>Black and White Cat Fucking Rachael
Nigga do you just want this topic to get worse?
ID: a8715 No.7859
I don't recall saying that. Not to claim I never did, but I don't remember it.
Then again I've gone back and looked at old posts and its like reading someone else's writing.
ID: a17d4 No.7861
Fuckin' exactly, we should trust their word on Miles "changing for the better" about as far as we can throw a stegosaurus. For fuck's sake, we now know the next page features him throwing a big self-entitled "Nice Guy" tantrum over Rachael miraculously coming back to her senses and NOT deciding she wants him, THIS IS NOT HOW GOOD, LOVEABLE PEOPLE BEHAVE.
ID: 967d3 No.7862
>It's quite hard to like a character who is an opportunistic but lazy, skirt-chasing sociopath.
You know when I left school and started work I saw a lot of these characters, usually teenagers who hung out in gangs looking for trouble and pretending to be tough with unlit cigarettes in their mouths. I was even lazy n opportunistic when I was young, so I guess they used this type of template for Miles cause of his character but it failed to impress readers as a single person on their own trying to be a rebel just makes them look more a villain than a hero.
ID: a2fd1 No.7864
Shit, I knew I should've used my name. *shrugs*
ID: a17d4 No.7866
So not only did you just talk to two different people as though they're the same person, you also once again singled out only one person, or who you thought was only one person, when multiple people were talking about the same damn thing. And of all things, it was the undeniable trend of the creators promising Miles will change for the better and then Miles completely failing to do so.
How did you go from supporting a nine-video review criticizing and/or bashing nearly every aspect of this comic and literally calling it the worst webcomic ever to being so hypersensitive that people can't even criticize Miles "changing for the better" being the Las Lindas equivalent of Fluttershy learning to be assertive without you getting mad at them for it?
ID: 44325 No.7867
Christ almighty, here we go again. It really just feels like we're going in circles now
ID: e149b No.7868
I feel like you're the last person who should be trying to get on someone for being hypersensitive.
ID: a17d4 No.7869
Also just occurred to me, thread's hit its limit, someone should start a new one up soon.
ID: 27be3 No.7870
In my head its easy enough to picture that as Randal. Good enough
ID: 27f40 No.7871
I still haven't gotten an answer as to what Knighthood needs to actually be a better story, short of axing it.
I guess I'll take what I got as "Just imitate Obsidian as much as possible".
I'll just… sneak my way out of this thread before I get pulled into the impending shitstorm in the new thread.
ID: 262e3 No.7872
Save it for the next page and we have something NEW
to talk about.
ID: 4728a No.7873
One of the reasons no one answers you is that I don't think anyone really reads Knighthood. Because it's not very good, but it's also not bad in an interesting way. It's just there. It's derivative and bland and not even worth reading to see "Oh what is it this time?" if you were the sort so inclined.
The problem with Knighthood is that it gets one of the premises of single protagonist-centric fiction wrong. Such a series is supposed to hook you by making you think that the main character is interesting in some way, and draw you in by showing you why they're interesting, how other people relate to them and are connected to them, and that way get you interested in the challenges they face.
The problem with Knighthood is that it's clear that the writer just takes it for granted that everyone finds his main character as interesting as he does. He thinks she's fascinating and amazing and cool, and so just proceeds under the assumption that it goes without saying and all he needs to do is keep giving her opportunities to show it off. Which is great if all you're looking for is someone to do some super kung-fu and that's all it takes to get you invested in a character, otherwise it's just kind of meh.
In other words, Knighthood's failure started from the beginning with how it tells its story. You can't "fix" it at this point without starting over.
ID: 858d1 No.7874
I think the story is OK the way it is, but maybe add a little fanservice in it like in LL.