ID: 2a983 No.1136
Also, is Jemma just going to be a zombie in the framework? Or wake up six feet under?
ID: 7b142 No.1137
I'm a few episodes behind and need to catch up, but I definitely enjoyed the Ghost Rider phase of this season more.
LMD hasn't been terrible, but it feels like they're trying to do an intrigue thriller and just aren't quite up to the task.
ID: a8874 No.1138
As it goes on I feel like they take it one step too far with the dramatic reveal twists. Not that there isn't buildup to the twists or that they don't make sense, but it could stand to be one layer less convoluted.
You can tell that they definitely blew their budget on Ghost Rider and are trying to recoup with LMD.
How far into it are you so I can avoid spoiling things.
ID: 7b142 No.1139
The episode where they rescued Captain Guam.
ID: a8874 No.1140
Okay. So I really like what they did with Ada being made evil by bad role models rather than AI being inherently amoral. Like an intelligent toddler that knows just enoglugh to be stupid.
Unfortunately, I think that the next episode is as it will get with the LMDs replacing people. And even then, eh.
I do like Captain Guam. I've warmed up to him since the first half of the season.
ID: 4d17b No.1141
Also. Skye's name just gets dumber every season.
ID: 7b142 No.1142
Yup, I've really come around on him. I think in part it's because what we were seeing of him wasn't really him, but the phony image that politicians had shaped him into. Turns out once you see the real him he's a pretty decent dude.
ID: c7ff8 No.1143
He reminds me of a dad that is just not living up to the standard that he believes he should be.
He just does his best.
ID: 7b142 No.1144
Actually I think you could go deeper than that with that comparison.
He's a stepdad. He's been brought in to replace the old dad, but he's still trying to have a good relationship with the old dad, and doing his best to be what he thinks a dad is to the teenage kids even though he's never had kids before. Then the marriage starts having difficulties and he kind of stops being the dad the wife wants him to be and starts just being himself.
ID: c7ff8 No.1145
That's spot on.
SkyeTremmorsDaisyQuake has been almost tolerable this season though. once she was forced out of her one person pity party. She has no choice but to listen to the people who were telling her "Get your head out of your ass!"
ID: 7b142 No.1146
Sooooo… the Framework is kinda fucked up, huh?
ID: c7ff8 No.1147
Yeah seems that way. I wonder what the chain of events that lead to that world. I'm guessing it has something to do with Coleson never joining shield.
Although I do worry about how "die in there, you die for real" works when you're framework self is already dead.
ID: 7b142 No.1148
I'm also kind of interested by the bit we saw in the preview, of the one photograph rezzing a bit. Wonder if that was just added for the preview, or if the Framework is actually having trouble telling the difference between two equally strong "I wish this" emotions from one person.
ID: c7ff8 No.1149
I was under the impression that she had to manually reset and update the framework to accommodate the desires of new entrants.
So my guess is that things wouldn't change until Ada is aware of the intruders and able to scan their brains to pinpoint their regrets/desires/wishes, then reboot the world with those changes in place.
At least, that was the impression I got when she woke up Radcliffe after adding the rest of the team.
ID: 7b142 No.1150
Hm, it's possible that they used the knowledge of the others to get the Framework ready in that case though since she was obviously a priority target, which could also conceivably explain the rezzing as each of the others would have had a different idea of just what she would have wished for.
ID: c7ff8 No.1151
I guess I can see that for skye, although I don't know what that would say about her shacking up with Ward.
But if that's the case then why would Jemma be dead?
ID: 7b142 No.1152
Supposition. As much as he loves her, Fitz on some level realizes that much of the suffering he's undergone in life is also connected to Jemma, because she's his anchor to the life of a SHIELD agent. He could have left SHIELD long ago and become ridiculously rich working for any tech company out there or even starting his own, but wanting to be with Jemma has kept him in SHIELD and undergoing all these horrors.
So Jemma being dead was born of Aida's cold, analytical analysis of Fitz's subconscious and the decision that he'd be happier with her dead.
ID: c7ff8 No.1153
That, actually makes a lot of sense. Although it will suck for her to wake up in a coffin, it will suck worse when Fitz finds out she's alive.
ID: 7b142 No.1154
Actually the more and more I think about it the more I think the big twist of this series is that Fitz and Simmons will break up.
I actually think that's what they've been working towards for awhile now, looking back. Get people invested in these two characters being together because they're "perfect for each other", but the closer together they get the further apart they are. Their views on the world are gradually being revealed as further and further apart, and it's starting to look like Jemma doesn't really respect Fitz that much.
Maybe Whedon realized everyone was expecting him to hurt them emotionally via character death and instead decided to sneak up and hurt them with relationship death.
ID: c7ff8 No.1155
Well, we see the framework and boy is it a piece of work.
Mei you fucked it up, you fucked it ALL up
ID: c7ff8 No.1156
Also, I was legitimately surprised by Director Ada. Although in hindsight I shouldn't have been
ID: 7b142 No.1157
It's such a weird and twisted way to have that work out, but I guess it makes sense. Aida was told to make sure people were satisfied and accepting of the Framework… but deep in her processor she's an evil bitch, and wanted to make a world that was also somehow punishing the agents at the same time as it was giving them what they wanted. So Fitz is finally a big, successful, respected man that would make his father proud… but he lost Jemma. Mei finally got to save the little girl… but instead of the girl being harmless, the disaster just unfolded in an even worse way. Even Daisy… she finally got the heroic Grant Ward she always believed in, but she would have had to work with Hydra to have him, and would have eventually lost him anyway one way or another.
On a related note, wouldn't it be a kick if they could somehow pull Framework Ward out of there and put him in an LMD?>>1156
ID: 7b142 No.1158
Oh, also, what the fuck were Daisy and Jemma's problems? They were just absolutely shit at handling and adapting to the Framework. They both know it's just a simulation but they were both stumbling through it. They had no plan, they weren't playing along well, they acted more like random civilians thrown into these roles than seasoned agents. Jemma's supposed to be fucking good at this, she was undercover in Hydra for months, she navigated the political machinations of the new SHIELD at a high level, what the fuck happened to turn her into such an inept little mouse all of a sudden?
ID: ecf82 No.1159
>>1158Maybe it's culture shock? That's the best I can come up with. But yeah, Daisy, of all people, ended up being slightly better at espionage than the trained double agent. I geuss she's garbage without reaources and someone watching over het shoulder
I suspect that they'll find that shutting down the framework would be akin to genocide. Considering the people in it may as well be real.I would support a Heroic Ward LMD, but if they do break him out, he'd probably die fighting the Cyber Russian
After all this we still have to deal with real Ada and her new boyfriend Vladimir the Head in a Jar.
ID: 7b142 No.1160
Man I'd love LMD Ward
to be a regular but if he only shows up to kick the shit out of the Russian
then that'd still be cool as hell.
ID: c7ff8 No.1161
They could give him a fun nickname, like Ward 2.0
honestly, I just like the actor a lot.
ID: 8ed81 No.1163
Latest episode gives us our subplot of this arc Project Lookinglass seems to be our out for this. Maybe the Darkhold didn't create a simulation, but an alternate reality that can be traveled to and from, with the right circumstances. That or Ada had an army of LMDs with which to insert the personalitirs of soldiers agents loyal to her, and project looking glass is the uploading program
I enjoyed how Mac tricked Daisy into incriminating herself
Ada must have really done a number on Fitz or Fitz always had a dark side
Kudos to Ada for Giving him his daughter back, the kind of perfect daughter he always imagined he could be. now he'll never want to leave
ID: 7b142 No.1164
Honestly, this storyarc has made me think a lot, lot less of Mei and Fitz. From what we can tell all this really did was remove a few memories in one case and change one life event in the other. If that was all it took to turn them both into violent, soulless fascists, they were really never all that much to begin with.
I kinda hope neither of them make it out of this tbh.
ID: 8132e No.1165
Well as for the formet she's always been a soldier first, an agent. That barrier of mistrust has been a part of her for a long time. Extend that to, well, everyone. Give it a lazer focus on the inhumans and magnify her already preaent survivors' guilt with making even more deaths her fault and it all comes together
As for the other one? I don't know really. Betting on the daddy issues they have been hinting at all season. Besides I don't think he'll make it out totally himself. Imagine if "project lookingglass works out and he ends up in his own body as Hydra Fitz or it will be an alternate personality in his subconsious. And that'll be the next season's villain and the new hydra's new head
ID: 8132e No.1166
Although That plot is kind of reminiscent of the Evil Abed arc of Community
ID: 7b142 No.1167
My prediction: Jemma is repeatedly faced with the fact that these simulated people feel and react so thoroughly that they're effectively real even if they're data. If she pulls Fitz out, it will still leave Fitzler there and in charge of Hydra, tormenting eight billion digital souls. Rather than consign the world to that fate, Jemma pulls the trigger on Fitzler, thereby killing Fitz as well.
ID: d811d No.1168
In the latest episode she still is stubborn on that point.
She's still being a dick to everyone she thinks isn't real
Ward is the best.
Fitz is evil because he was raised by his abusive father instead of his caring mother
Mei Does a face turn. After Captain Guam does a heroic sacrifice to save one of the children in a collapsing building that were deemed acceptible collateral damage by Madam Hydra
It looks like the next episode We're coming out, since the title changes back to Agents of Shield
however we may be dealing with Evil Fitz in the real world, since he's no closer to unbrainwashing
ID: 7b142 No.1169
Yeah but the bit I predicted seems to be hinted at in Jemma's reaction to Mac and Hope
ID: c7ff8 No.1170
I saw that more as happy to see Mac happy for a change
but you also make a good point. Not looking forward to you have to come back to the world where she's dead.
ID: 0465d No.1171
After this week I think I can still hope that Ward comes to the real world. Perhaps even in a real body, but it looks a little less likely. We also Aren't any closer to restotlring anyone's memories, but they do have that memory restoeation machine from a few seasons ago.
ID: c7ff8 No.1172
That latest episode was an emotional rollercoaster. I'm a bit disappointed that we probably won't see any more Framework Ward, but I'll hold on hope, Looks like it is building up to a hell of a finale.
ID: 7b142 No.1173
Yo-Yo, looking to take that Queen of Dumb Decisions crown away from Jemma, who previously won it from Daisy.
ID: 0a62c No.1174
I don't know. Yoyo made one dumb decision that would only get herself killed. Besides that it's our last chance to get Framework Ward into realspace
Jemma's bad decisions put EVERYONE at risk
ID: 7b142 No.1175
ID: c7ff8 No.1176
Seems as good a time as any to introduce the Royal Family Inhumans, Black Bolt and crew* Let the head die down
on earth, have a space adventure, return to business as usual**
I'm really sad that Framework Ward is erased from existance along with the rest of the framework,
but I guess it had to be done. I really like that actor
ID: c7ff8 No.1177
File: 1495120312791.jpg (Spoiler Image, 135.7 KB, 1280x720, Next Season on Shield.jpg)
Although…there are some bad connotations with this.
ID: 7b142 No.1178
Maybe eventually we'll find out that the framework didn't really disappear but slipped off to some lower level of space or something.
ID: c7ff8 No.1179
Well, Ghost rider did mention other dimensions, many of them Hells.
What if original ward is on one of him, and he pulls a Slade or something. That would seem appropriate for Ward Classic.
ID: 12cb1 No.1207
They pulled a fucking Total Recall!
Not that I would mind one after hearing the potential of Daisy Johnson head of Shield Anything to prevent that garbage
ID: 7b142 No.1208
Gotta admit, good casting on Deke considering that one revelation.
ID: c7ff8 No.1209
Yeah, he does look kind of like a mix of those two.
ID: c7ff8 No.1210
By the way, are they trying to do the Thunderbolts? I can't quite tell.
ID: 7b142 No.1211
As to the it's all in Coulson's head thing, here are my thoughts:
I very briefly thought that might be plausible. For one thing it would explain why the Inhumans seem to be confined just to Agents of SHIELD and their own one-season-flop of a show, and why the Netflix shows and movies consistently refer to people as "powered" or "enhanced" rather than assuming that they're Inhuman. (I actually assume this is some stupid usage rights snarl between the people involved even if some of them own some others. Usage rights regarding TV and movie properties are weird as fuck.) However the thing that shoots this theory's plausibility in the head is that there's no way for Coulson to know or reference all the events that happened after Loki stabbed him. Now it's theoretically possible he could have incorporated the Chitauri invasion, it happened really soon after he was attacked and they might bring it up in the operating room. But unless he's been on that operating table for about five years, there's no way he could incorporate the Kree (which I still don't think have made it to Earth outside of Agents, but clearly do exist), the Dark Elf incursion, the fall of SHIELD due to Hydra, etc. The only explanation there would be that a ton of aspects of his operating table delusions just so happened to overlap perfectly with events that hadn't even happened yet in reality, which is farfetched enough that someone's skull catching fire is believable in comparison.
ID: 7b142 No.1212
Oh and the Judas bullet that someone used to shoot the new Director. That was something Coulson would have no way to know about either.
ID: c7ff8 No.1213
>>1212Yeah, it's one of those things where the more you think about it the less sense it makes
Also, I Totally missed the Judas Bullet thing, must have slipped past me
ID: c7ff8 No.1214
The latest episode was interesting and had a good twist. I'd say it's my favorite of the season so far just for the moment when Fitz realized what he did, and goes through with it anyway
ID: 7b142 No.1215
They never mention it by name, you have to pay attention to the sound it makes and what it does to even realize that's what it is. Again, I'm guessing usage rights snarl.
ID: 7b142 No.1217
Y'know I was thinking earlier, Daisy's one of the few characters I've seen whose character arc was almost literally a fucking arc. As in she started off being really annoying and crappy, kind of gradually rose up into being a good character, then gradually fell back down into being complete shit.
ID: c7ff8 No.1219
Absolutely agreed. She's all the unlikable traits of Mei combined with her own arrogance and hardheadedness. If she would just listen to advice once I'd be fine with it, but she never listens to anyone like Phil did.
I'm caught up now and Anyone who thinks that Yo-yo actually saved the world by killing her is stupid
ID: 7b142 No.1220
Y'know the thing was that period where she was like "Mei in training", where she didn't even do that much computer stuff, that was kind of the highlight of her period as a character. Which sounds bad but they just brought such a focus to her of being a competent field agent and getting things done, having the right blending of working with the team and acting on her own initiative.
And then Whatsisface McLightningzap died and so did her good characterization.
ID: c7ff8 No.1221
All that said, I really like what they're doing with most of the other characters. This is the most I've ever liked Fitz and Simmons. I've never liked Talbit so much.